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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 11:01:48 GMT -5
Cavs Get:
SF/SG Paul Pierce 89 $18,077,905/$19,976,085/$21,874,265(TO)
PG/SG Mike James 74 $6,633,480/1
SG Derek Anderson 68 $1,750,000/1
PG Jay Williams 63 $500,000/1
SF Sammy Meija 63 $500,000/1
Total: $28,261,393
Bobcats Get:
SF/SG Caron Butler 87 $8,999,980/$9,780,970/$10,561,960
PF Antoine Walker 70 $9,052,460/$9,775,280(TO)/$10,498,100
PG/SG Sarunas Jasikevicius 68 $500,000/$500,000(TO)
SG/PG Damon Jones 66 $4,456,250/1
2008 16th Overall (Raptors)
Total: $23,008,690[/b][/color]
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 11:07:05 GMT -5
I accept, I get a lot of cap space next year, a good pick, and much younger player to build around,
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Post by Cleveland Cavaliers on Aug 11, 2008 11:42:51 GMT -5
I accept. Pierce is exactly what i was looking for.
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 12:28:50 GMT -5
I am holding back temporarily. I really think Caron is a really great player, just rated 2 points less than Pierce, and makes half as much, signed to the same amount of years. I think the two wash each other out, I personally would prefer Caron. Moving on with the deal...
James/Anderson/Williams/Meija all expire next year, clearing up about 9.4 million. They're rated 74/68/63/63.
Toine/Jones/Jasi also expire next year (basically), clearing up about 14 million. They're rated 70/68/66.
So personally I take the superstars as a wash. Then the whole cap situation here...I know they're in here to match up salaries a little...but a 3 man combo worth average of 68 a piece (taking 14 mil off the books), vs a 4 man combo worth avg of 67, a piece (taking 9 mil off the books)...well I personally think that's basically a wash. One side gets one player who is pretty good, but the other side gets more cap space next year.
THEN we throw in the #16 pick this year and a future #1? #16 is rated 68 or 67 at worst unless you really reach...and who knows about the #1 in two more years? Probably will be a late 1st, but still.
I see this - Charlotte gets one superstar swapped out for a cheaper, younger, just as good superstar (favors Charlotte)
Charlotte gets to clear 5 million more cap next year, and really isn't giving up any players that have much value (wash at best, personally favors Charlotte)
Charlotte then gets #16 (rated 68) and a future 1st...because what? (obviously in my opinion, this favors Charlotte since it seems like these picks are free)
I am gonna see if people agree or disagree with me, but right now I'm leaning reject. Why do these 1sts have to be in here? Am i just valuing Caron too much?
Caron - 20 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast, 2.2 STLS, shoots 47% FG, 36% 3pt, 90% FT (28 years old)
Pierce - 20 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast, 1.3 STL, shoots 46% FG, 39% 3pt, 84% FT (31 years old in October)
yes I know...Pierce had the other 2 of the Big Three...whoopty whoo. Without them he did score about 25 and reb 1 or 2 more boards (which puts him even with Caron in that category). His AST stay the same. BUT, Caron plays with Agent 0 (huge ball hog...really) and Jamison. Not like Caron is the only guy on that team and he's just taking all the shots.
I am gonna reject this deal. Final Answer
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Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 11, 2008 12:40:27 GMT -5
I like a lot of the points you make. Butler is a cheaper, younger player, with the ability to play just as good as Pierce does. How Charlotte gets off paying 9mil less for a player to put about the same numbers in a sim (currently real life), while also clearing more salary for next year, AND getting 2 1st's isn't fair. I'm also on the reject side right now.
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 12:46:10 GMT -5
EDIT: To all Committee Members. After this point, all that happens is Charlotte, myself, and others (a few of whom should not be posting in this thread anyway) debating this deal. I strongly recommend you vote on this trade before reading the rest of this thread. Charlotte and Cleveland both make some personal remarks about other members of the league that have nothing to do with this trade, and it confuses the issues.
Just my two cents, but I would say look at the deal, and at most look at what myself, Utah, and Charlotte/Cleveland have said up to this point. Nothing after it contains any other TC votes or anything. Make your own decision, post it, and THEN feel free to look at what happened here.
Thanks for listening
yea...if my post is too wordy, here's how it works.
Charlotte gets a younger, cheaper, just as good star in exchange for an older, twice as expensive star.
Charlotte clears 5 million this year in cap.
Charlotte clears 5 million MORE next year in cap.
Charlotte then also gets 2 draft picks for his trouble.
Cavs get, IMO, a decent player in Mike James...but that's the only part of this he wins, and even then he has to take on way too much cap to only win that.
Sorry Kitties, I like you, but this is too much.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:48:13 GMT -5
And Mike James has not value to a team that is trying to win right now? The guys starting 5 goes up 8 (+6 at SG and +2 at SF.) Pierce has been a good player for years, Butler has been the last 2 at best. The guy trying to win now, and even if the future it's not that bad. Pierce makes more than Butler so obviously I'm going to get more dead money. James might have a good year, Walker is obviously done and who the hell knows how a 2010 1st is going to turn out? This is bogus this trade is fair. Also this really bothers me... (obviously in my opinion, this favors Charlotte since it seems like these picks are free)r How would you even know I "like free picks." The only I can see is you are tired of getting your ass kicked in rim and don't want the same thing to happen here. I don't think anyone should be using other leagues against people and it's utter bullcrap. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:48:50 GMT -5
I like a lot of the points you make. Butler is a cheaper, younger player, with the ability to play just as good as Pierce does. How Charlotte gets off paying 9mil less for a player to put about the same numbers in a sim (currently real life), while also clearing more salary for next year, AND getting 2 1st's isn't fair. I'm also on the reject side right now. WILL EVERYONE PLEASE LET ME f**kING TALK BEFORE WE JUMP ON THE WHOLE CLIPPER REJECT BANDWAGON! How can you say Butler is the same player as Pierce? Pierce won a ring and just stuck it in Kobe Bryant's eye. Pierce is a finals MVP and Butler is at best the 2nd option in Washington. You were going to give me RJ Milsap and Boobie for Pierce....imo low picks are worthless in this league, I get 68 and that 2010 1st who knows what that will be but it would take a lot for it to tank. I don't care about the 2010 1st, I really wanted a 2nd this year but he offered it to me. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:49:08 GMT -5
shit I'm glad I came online, do you people have no brain for yourself?
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 12:50:17 GMT -5
And Mike James has not value to a team that is trying to win right now? The guys starting 5 goes up 8 (+6 at SG and +2 at SF.) Pierce has been a good player for years, Butler has been the last 2 at best. The guy trying to win now, and even if the future it's not that bad. Pierce makes more than Butler so obviously I'm going to get more dead money. James might have a good year, Walker is obviously done and who the hell knows how a 2010 1st is going to turn out? This is bogus this trade is fair. Also this really bothers me... (obviously in my opinion, this favors Charlotte since it seems like these picks are free)r How would you even know I "like free picks." The only I can see is you are tired of getting your ass kicked in rim and don't want the same thing to happen here. I don't think anyone should be using other leagues against people and it's utter bullcrap. The fact you think I'm trying to sabotage this deal in Legends because your team is better in Rim is utter nonsense. I'm personally offended, and I demand an apology. I stand by everything I've said. I think this deal could be reworked w/o too much trouble, the only trouble being you have to accept not winning the deal by a landslide. |
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Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 11, 2008 12:50:51 GMT -5
I didn't....can I not agree with someone, or do I have to explain everything out for myself.
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 12:51:27 GMT -5
Also, you're insulting Utah. He's a great GM and a great TC member and staff member. He thinks for himself just fine.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:51:58 GMT -5
And Mike James has not value to a team that is trying to win right now? The guys starting 5 goes up 8 (+6 at SG and +2 at SF.) Pierce has been a good player for years, Butler has been the last 2 at best. The guy trying to win now, and even if the future it's not that bad. Pierce makes more than Butler so obviously I'm going to get more dead money. James might have a good year, Walker is obviously done and who the hell knows how a 2010 1st is going to turn out? This is bogus this trade is fair. Also this really bothers me... How would you even know I "like free picks." The only I can see is you are tired of getting your ass kicked in rim and don't want the same thing to happen here. I don't think anyone should be using other leagues against people and it's utter bullcrap. The fact you think I'm trying to sabotage this deal in Legends because your team is better in Rim is utter nonsense. I'm personally offended, and I demand an apology. I stand by everything I've said. I think this deal could be reworked w/o too much trouble, the only trouble being you have to accept not winning the deal by a landslide. Then how the hell do you know I like free picks? Explain that to me. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:53:44 GMT -5
Also, you're insulting Utah. He's a great GM and a great TC member and staff member. He thinks for himself just fine. Okay well Pierce > Butler imo. |
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 12:54:50 GMT -5
you obviously read something I said wrong.
First off, who the hell wouldn't like free picks?
Secondly, what I said was this favors Charlotte since it seems like these picks are free.
You're losing your mind if you think I said the words "charlotte likes free picks"
Although, of course anyone would.
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Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 11, 2008 12:56:44 GMT -5
Also, you're insulting Utah. He's a great GM and a great TC member and staff member. He thinks for himself just fine. Okay well Pierce > Butler imo. At twice the cost, I'd take Butler.  And if you if you think I don't think that I think for myself, go take at a look of some of this league's trades, I'm usually one of the first people that either reject/accept it the majority of the time. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:57:58 GMT -5
Okay well Pierce > Butler imo. At twice the cost, I'd take Butler. And if you if you think I don't think that I think for myself, go take at a look of some of this league's trades, I'm usually one of the first people that either reject/accept it the majority of the time. That's fine, I just don't see how gaining 8 points to your starting 5 is unfair...James expires too? |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 12:58:56 GMT -5
Okay so if we take out the 2010 1st will you guys approve it?
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Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 11, 2008 13:02:27 GMT -5
Personally, I'd feel better about the deal if the 16th pick was taken out. And I'm not even sure you can trade 2010 picks, Seattle doesn't have it listed in the Draft Picks Owned. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:05:28 GMT -5
You aren't giving Mike James his value, the 16th pick is a 68 for crying out loud! The guy is trying to win now he'll have a starting 5 of Udric 74h/James 74/Pierce 89/Brand 90/Curry 80. He is already over the cap this year, why does it hurt him to take on 5 M in contracts, next year it will be the difference between Butler's and Pierce's contracts. PS. then everyone should have there own 2010 1st's  |
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And if you if you think I don't think that I think for myself, go take at a look of some of this league's trades, I'm usually one of the first people that either reject/accept it the majority of the time.