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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:13:57 GMT -5
Just taking out the 2010 1st honestly does nothing to me. I already broke down the trade. I made it clear that I think you win everything, and then get 2 picks for free. If you take out BOTH picks then I will personally at least look at the deal seriously again.
James is a solid player, but if that is the only part I think CLE wins, while you win in getting a younger, MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper, just as good player, clear 5 mil this year, and clear 5 mil next year still...I dunno even then it favors you. I'd have to think on it.
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:16:57 GMT -5
At twice the cost, I'd take Butler.  And if you if you think I don't think that I think for myself, go take at a look of some of this league's trades, I'm usually one of the first people that either reject/accept it the majority of the time. That's fine, I just don't see how gaining 8 points to your starting 5 is unfair...James expires too? I know this isn't happening, but let's say I have a starting 5 of 74/68/75/70/70 and I have the #1 pick. Now I go and trade the #1 pick for a 76 rated SG. I just improved my starting lineup by 8 points! There are TONS of ways that "improving your starting 5 by 8 points" can be unfair. Your deal is one example. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:16:58 GMT -5
there 2 points of rating difference plus the only thing I get back is an expiring contract (Damon Jones) the rest could be broken down into a deal to send Mike James to CLE. Mike James has been a good player and I just don't see the hate for him. I hope other TC people will see that Pierce > Butler and James = 16 and Walker.
I guess if it gets vetoed Utah you can post the trade we had of Boobie, Milsap, and RJ for Pierce....
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:18:59 GMT -5
So Charlotte...if the trade gets vetoed, you and Utah will make a trade where you trade Butler? How will that happen?
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:19:05 GMT -5
That's fine, I just don't see how gaining 8 points to your starting 5 is unfair...James expires too? I know this isn't happening, but let's say I have a starting 5 of 74/68/75/70/70 and I have the #1 pick. Now I go and trade the #1 pick for a 76 rated SG. I just improved my starting lineup by 8 points! There are TONS of ways that "improving your starting 5 by 8 points" can be unfair. Your deal is one example. Well obviously if you have the #1 pick then you are going to improve a lot, we aren't talking about the #1 pick we are about #16, there is 12 or more points of difference between the 1st and 16th pick. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:20:17 GMT -5
So Charlotte...if the trade gets vetoed, you and Utah will make a trade where you trade Butler? How will that happen? What are you talking about? |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:33:28 GMT -5
We Report you decide:
Bown=me
Inyourhonor=Clippers
InYourHonor53: hmm
InYourHonor53: i said anderson for sarunas is basically fair
BowN9008: okay
BowN9008: walker and the 16th pick for james williams and meija
InYourHonor53: jay williams and meija mean nothing in this deal to me
InYourHonor53: but whatever
BowN9008: i agree
BowN9008: there part of the salaries he's taking
BowN9008: walker is gonna go WAY down
BowN9008: james and him both expire
InYourHonor53: walkers value isn't his rating
InYourHonor53: and everyone knows that
InYourHonor53: 9 million expiring is worth a hella lot
BowN9008: so is 6?
InYourHonor53: i'm not saying it's not worth anything
BowN9008: the fact is
InYourHonor53: it is worth a good amount
BowN9008: mike james
BowN9008: is worth more to CLE
BowN9008: than Walker and the 16th pick
InYourHonor53: the fact is, when you add up this whole deal, I think it's unfair
BowN9008: i just went through the whole thing
InYourHonor53: i will stand by it
BowN9008: you didn't give me an answer
BowN9008: but you just said all of it but walker and the 16th pick for james is fair
BowN9008: so i'll ask you again
BowN9008: is walker and the 16th for james fair?
InYourHonor53: I'd much rather have Walker/16
InYourHonor53: to clear the cap and get a solid youngin
BowN9008: THEY BOTH EXPIRE
BowN9008: damn how many times i gotta say it
InYourHonor53: but toine is worth MORE
InYourHonor53: haha
InYourHonor53: i dunno, how many times I gotta repeat myself
BowN9008: you just keep saying
BowN9008: walker value is his expiring contract
InYourHonor53: Charlotte gets a younger, cheaper, just as good star in exchange for an older, twice as expensive star
BowN9008: i just want walker to make this trade work and sit on my bench and help develope young kids
InYourHonor53: Charlotte clears 5 million this year
BowN9008: not just as good
InYourHonor53: charlotte clears 5 million next year
BowN9008: just as good in your eyes
InYourHonor53: charlotte gets 2 draft picks in exchange for Mike James then
InYourHonor53: yes, my eyes, I'm the one voting
BowN9008: who cares if i get 5 M this year
InYourHonor53: it's my opinion
BowN9008: he's over the cap?
BowN9008: it does him no good
InYourHonor53: so he has to take on more cap
BowN9008: it all expires
BowN9008: next year
InYourHonor53: sounds like advantage him!
BowN9008: he wants pierce
BowN9008: he has to take on 11
BowN9008: you just don't want him to have pierce is that it?
InYourHonor53: not at all
InYourHonor53: you are being silly
BowN9008: no i'm not
InYourHonor53: I DON'T THINK THIS DEAL IS FAIR
BowN9008: you are being very silly
InYourHonor53: end of my story
BowN9008: why
BowN9008: you can't give me a good answer
InYourHonor53: i told you 16 billion tims
BowN9008: you are trying to play GM
InYourHonor53: holy shit you're retarded
InYourHonor53: no i'm not
InYourHonor53: i will see ya later
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:33:45 GMT -5
Obviously you didn't get the point. It was a hypothetical scenario where I could improve my starting lineup but do a bad deal. I am of the opinion that your deal also does this for Cleveland.
I think the deal is unfair, and I've said it over and over the same way.
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Post by Utah Jazz on Aug 11, 2008 13:33:51 GMT -5
there 2 points of rating difference plus the only thing I get back is an expiring contract (Damon Jones) the rest could be broken down into a deal to send Mike James to CLE. Mike James has been a good player and I just don't see the hate for him. I hope other TC people will see that Pierce > Butler and James = 16 and Walker. I guess if it gets vetoed Utah you can post the trade we had of Boobie, Milsap, and RJ for Pierce.... Nah, sorry, but I decided to go a different way after I was out of the run for Pierce, not to mention we can't do the deal until I re-sign Gibson anyways. |
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:35:16 GMT -5
Man you are flipping shit. First off that's a private conversation, I'd appreciate it if a Mod would delete it.
Secondly, I clearly say that when this whole damn deal comes together my opinion is that it's unfair. You're getting out of line and I'm done with you. I won't be saying anything else in this thread until some more TC members chip in.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:35:36 GMT -5
Obviously you didn't get the point. It was a hypothetical scenario where I could improve my starting lineup but do a bad deal. I am of the opinion that your deal also does this for Cleveland. I think the deal is unfair, and I've said it over and over the same way. Yet you can't tell me why? Because you can't fathom someone is trying to win now. Just get out of Clipper rebuilding mode for a second and you would realize this trade helps the Cavs do what they want to do, whither you agree with it or not. |
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Post by Los Angeles Lakers on Aug 11, 2008 13:37:12 GMT -5
quote] How can you say Butler is the same player as Pierce? Pierce won a ring and just stuck it in Kobe Bryant's eye. Pierce is a finals MVP and Butler is at best the 2nd option in Washington. how the HELL did Pierce stuck it to Kobe's eyes, ESPICIALLY when Kobe didn't even defend Pierce since Vlad and Luke was, and if Luke or Vlad defended Kobe, Kobe would have dropped 75. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:37:52 GMT -5
Man you are flipping shit. First off that's a private conversation, I'd appreciate it if a Mod would delete it. Secondly, I clearly say that when this whole damn deal comes together my opinion is that it's unfair. You're getting out of line and I'm done with you. I won't be saying anything else in this thread until some more TC members chip in. Go ahead, I took screen shots of it all and will send it to every single person in the league if it's deleted because it reveals you are trying to play Cavs GM when aren't the Cavs GM. I'm not out of line, the TC should be able to give a reason why they think it's unfair other than "I just think it's unfair." |
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 13:38:13 GMT -5
BTW, last thing, is my response on AIM to Charlotte. Since he wants to post everything we say to each other. Cya Later.
All i have to say is that was very childish of you to post that, and proved nothing, I'm out. Sorry your deal is unfair, which I've said 14 billion times. I'm sorry you don't get to screw someone over and make your whole team's situation exponentially better. The deal isn't fair in my opinion. I'm on the trade committee to voice my opinion on trades. That's what I did.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:39:01 GMT -5
quote] How can you say Butler is the same player as Pierce? Pierce won a ring and just stuck it in Kobe Bryant's eye. Pierce is a finals MVP and Butler is at best the 2nd option in Washington. how the HELL did Pierce stuck it to Kobe's eyes, ESPICIALLY when Kobe didn't even defend Pierce since Vlad and Luke was, and if Luke or Vlad defended Kobe, Kobe would have dropped 75. Well the great Lakers lost and you can blame it on Odom all you want but the fact is Kobe didn't rise to the challenge like a great one and Pierce did. |
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Post by Los Angeles Lakers on Aug 11, 2008 13:42:35 GMT -5
how the HELL did Pierce stuck it to Kobe's eyes, ESPICIALLY when Kobe didn't even defend Pierce since Vlad and Luke was, and if Luke or Vlad defended Kobe, Kobe would have dropped 75. Well the great Lakers lost and you can blame it on Odom all you want but the fact is Kobe didn't rise to the challenge like a great one and Pierce did. Pierce did CAUSE LUKE WALTON AND VLAD was guarding him. every player from BOS was intent on guarding Kobe and letting Odom and Gasol shoot, and they failed. I'll talk about this later gotta go now. |
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Aug 11, 2008 13:45:30 GMT -5
Well the great Lakers lost and you can blame it on Odom all you want but the fact is Kobe didn't rise to the challenge like a great one and Pierce did. Pierce did CAUSE LUKE WALTON AND VLAD was guarding him. every player from BOS was intent on guarding Kobe and letting Odom and Gasol shoot, and they failed. I'll talk about this later gotta go now. Um...do I even need to respond to this homer, they failed? I'll let Shaq tell you how it is. If Boston failed then Shaq wouldn't be rapping to Kobe telling him he can't do it without him. You can say whatever you want but the truth is if Kobe is a 97 Pierce should be about the same. |
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Aug 11, 2008 13:51:22 GMT -5
Well the great Lakers lost and you can blame it on Odom all you want but the fact is Kobe didn't rise to the challenge like a great one and Pierce did. Pierce did CAUSE LUKE WALTON AND VLAD was guarding him. every player from BOS was intent on guarding Kobe and letting Odom and Gasol shoot, and they failed. I'll talk about this later gotta go now. I dont think that argument works Look what he did against clev. and lebron, and against atl and smith, and det and prince IMO this trade isnt bad enough to reject The only thing I think is that the 2010 1st needs to be takin out Other than that I think it is a win-win for both teams |
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Aug 11, 2008 14:05:58 GMT -5
Detroit, that is fine. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. I never asked anyone to agree with me, just posted my thoughts, which is what a TC member is supposed to do. For the record though, in general, to everyone, hasn't Seattle asked that no one other than TC members post in these threads? Just wanna make sure we get that straightened out before too many more people start filling up the thread more than it has been.
As far as Charlotte goes, if he really doesn't think I ever explained why I think this deal is unfair then he didn't read my posts. Plain and Simple. There are about 800 words of mine clearly stating how I feel on the trade.
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Post by Cleveland Cavaliers on Aug 11, 2008 14:13:13 GMT -5
Are you guys serious? You really think this trade is unfair?
Paul Pierce is an NBA Finals MVP... Over Garnett.... The guy is straight up clutch, He was the go-to guy for an NBA Finals Champion, while Butler is a second option on a team that cant get out of the first round. So what if Butler is younger, I'm trying to win now.
Mike James is the equivalent to Antoine Walker and the number 16 pick. Best case scenario, the number sixteen pick is a 68 overall. Right now, Antoine Walker is my 5th best player. And if i make no trades and keep the pick, he would still be my fifth best player. Who in thier right mind would want Antoine Walker as thier shooting guard.
And Clipps, the expiring contracts of Damon Jones are really of no value to me, because even with this deal, i still have the 7 million expiring of Eric Snow that really gives me a great chance to re-sign Elton Brand. If i kept all my expiring contracts, i wouldnt even be able to sign a 70+ free agent, because there are always going to be ass teams like the Clippers who have like 50 million in cap space and can outbid everybody.
I'm trying to win now. Pierce and Brand are great. Eddy Curry is a monster. Beno Udrih just got 5 ratings points boosted. And Mike James is a hell of alot better than Sarunas freaking Jaskikivicus. So go clear your head and come back and reanalyze this deal.
I didn't use the 2010 pick in my argument because you stated earlier that it really meant nothing in your decision.
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And if you if you think I don't think that I think for myself, go take at a look of some of this league's trades, I'm usually one of the first people that either reject/accept it the majority of the time.
