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Post by sniper on Oct 1, 2008 20:49:31 GMT -5
Timberwolves Trade:
82| Ben Gordon - $11,000,000 - $12,000,000 - $13,000,000 (PO) - $14,000,000
66| Josh Boone - $500,000 - $500,000 - $500,000 -
2009 New Jersey 1st Round
2010 1st Round
2010 2nd Round
2010 Sacramento 2nd Round
Timberwolves Get:
87| Caron Butler - $8,999,980 - $9,780,970 - $10,561,960
66| Brian Cardinal - $6,300,000 - $6,300,000
Outgoing: $11,500,000
Incoming: $15,299,980
Bobcats Trade:
87| Caron Butler - $8,999,980 - $9,780,970 - $10,561,960
66| Brian Cardinal - $6,300,000 - $6,300,000
Bobcats Get:
82| Ben Gordon - $11,000,000 - $12,000,000 - $13,000,000 (PO) - $14,000,000
66| Josh Boone - $500,000 - $500,000 - $500,000 -
2009 New Jersey 1st Round
2010 1st Round
2010 2nd Round
2010 Sacramento 2nd Round
Outgoing: $15,299,980
Incoming: $11,500,000
I accept.
I trade two young players but get Butler, who I think can lead my team well.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Oct 2, 2008 10:30:24 GMT -5
As long as those 2010 picks are both Minny's I accept. There are a # of reasons why I am doing this deal.
#1 I realize unless I make a trade I will never get any better, it's just the way sim leagues are. You get stuck and sometimes you just need to make a trade to get a different look with other teams. No one was offering me a star and the best player I was getting offered was Gerald Wallace. I like Wallace much less than Gordon and there wasn't much else being added to my side of the deal.
#2 Don't get me wrong I really like this deal, I'm a bigger Gordon fan than Butler and Gordon is 3 years younger. By the time I get ready to "make my run" Butler will be 30 years old. I believe if Gordon ever gets in the right situation irl (whither that's with the Bulls or not) he will really shine while Butler has reached his potennial.
#3 I save 4 M in cap space and lose Cardinal's contract, while picking up 2 seconds (which my second should be low this year), Josh Boone (who I like), and a 1st in 2010.
#4 I think the T-wolves don't have a lot of potennial players, Nocconi and Butler are pretty much at there peak while guys like Nate Robinson, Daniel Gibson, and Vareajo are role players and unless something serious changes they won't go up. He also has Ben Wallace who should keep going down, and factoring in Cardinal will hurt his ability to sign FA's. I think there is a good chance that is a high pick in 2010.
I know people think a lot of Caron but I feel this is a really good deal for me.
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Oct 2, 2008 11:11:30 GMT -5
I really dont like this trade from Cha. standpoint.
Caron Butler is an up and coming star in the NBA while Gordon was the 6th man on the Bulls last year, now Boone and the 1st rounder are nice little pieces but thats all they are, little pieces. If all 3 of those picks were somehow 1st rounders this trade would be a lot more even. No one knows where Minnys team will be by 2010. IMO It sounds like Cha. is just doing this trade for the sake of making a trade, I realize that the best thing he said he was getting offered besides this deal was G-Wall but I think he could get a lot more than Gordon, Boone, and a iffy lottery pick in 2010. So im going to have to reject this trade based on the fact that I think Cha could do a lot better than the value he got in this trade.
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Post by sniper on Oct 2, 2008 16:39:45 GMT -5
Well I just added "2009 New Jersey 1st Round" to the deal.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Oct 2, 2008 17:54:36 GMT -5
This is retarded, Caron is not that great....I guess all I can do is ask all the GM's that know me to know that I am above all this reject TC shit and will pass this because I know what I'm doing....look at what I'm getting.
Detroit I know you love Butler but really I am not going to make the playoffs and you can't tell me he has more potennial than Gordon. Butler is in the prime of his career and Gordon is not, that simple.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Oct 2, 2008 18:21:34 GMT -5
Also "Gordon is a 6th man for the Bulls" that's a crock pot of shit and you know it Detroit. If you use that logic Manu is just a 6th man? Gordon averaged 21 ppg the year before and that's more than Butler has ever averaged. Gordon is a young up coming star, more so than Butler who has reached his peak. Watch them play, Gordon has a lot more Butler.
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Post by raps03 - TOR on Oct 2, 2008 19:37:35 GMT -5
i no i am not allowed to post here but they might change the effect to the trade (delete if u wish) Caron is a boosted 87 player which really makes him a 85. so it would be 82 for a 85
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Post by Orlando Magic on Oct 2, 2008 19:44:01 GMT -5
the last 09 1st that was added is a def bonus. i was close to reject for this one honestly because I also consider Caron to be a great player in sim leagues. BG is good but IMO significantly lower than Caron. The picks, Boone and ditching of Cardinal's UGLY contract is enough to put it in the realm of fairness. I accept but barely!!!! Charlotte could have gotten better for Caron.
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Post by Oklahoma City Thunder on Oct 2, 2008 20:05:57 GMT -5
This is retarded, Caron is not that great....I guess all I can do is ask all the GM's that know me to know that I am above all this reject TC shit and will pass this because I know what I'm doing....look at what I'm getting. Detroit I know you love Butler but really I am not going to make the playoffs and you can't tell me he has more potennial than Gordon. Butler is in the prime of his career and Gordon is not, that simple. Charlotte, I dont think you can say, "Caron isn't that great." I think that's your frustration coming out. Caron Butler is a 2 time all-star that is getting better. He essentially carried the Wizards to the playoffs last year when Arenas was hurt. Ben Gordon is a very good player, but he will never be an all-star, I know, im a Bulls fan. He is a 1 trick pony. He cant play defense, he cant pass, he cant rebound. Hes an undersized 2 guard. Nonetheless, I am going to accept this trade, becasue I trust Charlotte as a GM. If this was some other rookie GM, that was just trading to trade, I prolly would have a different opinion. Orlando also made some good points and I mostly agree with what he said. |
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Post by Philadelphia 76ers on Oct 2, 2008 20:15:57 GMT -5
I'll accept barely. Charlotte is a good GM and I trust what he's doing. However I think he's making BG out to be much better than he actually is, like OKC said he's a one trick pony who is a defensive liability and is VERY streaky, not to mention he's gonna be part of a crowded backcourt in Chicago this season.
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Post by Charlotte Bobcats on Oct 2, 2008 21:20:11 GMT -5
I respect all 3 of you that accepted (not that I don't respect DET but) and everyone is entitled to there 2 cents but to points that some of you made. Charlotte, I dont think you can say, "Caron isn't that great." I think that's your frustration coming out. Caron Butler is a 2 time all-star that is getting better. He essentially carried the Wizards to the playoffs last year when Arenas was hurt. It was the Eastern Conference and he still had Jamison, the East is really weak. Washington in the NBA isn't even a Top 15 team. If he's so great why couldn't he lead the Wizards to a 1st round series win over the Cavs? All I'm saying is over half the teams go to the playoffs, it isn't that big of a deal. I'll accept barely. Charlotte is a good GM and I trust what he's doing. However I think he's making BG out to be much better than he actually is, like OKC said he's a one trick pony who is a defensive liability and is VERY streaky, not to mention he's gonna be part of a crowded backcourt in Chicago this season. #1 I don't think all those guards will be with Chicago much longer, whither Gordon gets traded or not I think he will be put in a position to score. If he is the 2 guard next to Rose then he will be deadly (much like what I want to do with him with Ford, he fits my system.) #2 You just described Rip Hamilton and everyone thinks the world of him, I think Gordon will suprise you. I do appreicate you guys passing this deal, I know what I'm doing it and I need more value to play with. |
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Post by Los Angeles Clippers on Oct 2, 2008 21:58:51 GMT -5
The added pick also put it into the accept realm for me, but I do agree with the rest. Barely. I talked to CHA GM a couple days ago about a similar deal and told him if I was him, I definitely WOULD NOT do it...but he definitely likes Gordon a lot, and doesn't like Butler for some reason.
Couple things...I think Butler should probably be an 87 unboosted, and I think that may be his peak, somewhere in the 85-90 range. As much as I love the guy I'm not quite sure he's a Franchise type player...but he's getting close for me. Gordon on the other hand, I think 82 might be a little generous (how much better than Mike Miller (78?) is he?). I think 82 might be the peak for Gordon, but just my opinion for now. *For Clarification, I'm saying Gordon is overrated currently, not saying he has reached his peak as a player. I think 82 should be his peak rating, or something around there, but I think he's overrated right now.*
Anyway, I agree that putting too much stock in any 2010 pick is REALLY risky, and I don't value that too much...but adding in another 1st rounder next year was just enough for me to accept.
I like this for minny, and it makes his picks less valuable overall (IMO) but it's just enough for me to accept. Good luck both of you.
I Accept. Trade approved, please update all charts ASAP.
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Post by Detroit Pistons on Oct 2, 2008 22:00:30 GMT -5
If its ok with the staff I will turn my decision around and accept, news broke today not to long ago that BG signed a 1-year extension worth around like 6 mil, so there wont be a hold or or anything of those sorts plus Cha has made some very valid points so I accept
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Post by sniper on Oct 3, 2008 16:26:31 GMT -5
I would like to welcome back Caron Butler to Minnesota as this is his second stint as a Wolf.
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Post by Oklahoma City Thunder on Oct 3, 2008 16:29:55 GMT -5
Trade approved. Update charts ASAP
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